Episode Transcript
Zach Townsend
With me today, I have Dee Valentino from Waterstone Mortgage. She’s a residential loan officer. And I also have Dave Larson. He’s a realtor with Kelly Keller Williams.
Dave, did I get that right? It’s Keller Williams,
Dave Larson
Yes, it is Keller Williams. The funny part here in Rockford, of course, is we have Kelly Williams mobile gas station. So sometimes I do get people saying, I really like your coffee.
Zach Townsend (00:23)
I see. I see. So maybe that was subliminal because I’m a Kelly Williams guy and I didn’t know that I talking about my mini-mart by accident.
Dave Larson
Right. There you go. Keller Williams real estate here in Rockford, Illinois. I cover Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin have been with them for eight years. I’ve actually got a little bit of background in some of the mortgage stuff as well. I know Dee’s going to talk about here. I worked in banking for about six years as well. So I kind of like to think of myself as a little bit of a dual threat.
sometimes giving more information than I should and I need to pass the baton to Dee. So with that, Dee, go ahead.
Dee Valentino
you
Okay, thank you. Yeah, I’m Dee Valentino with Waterstone Mortgage. I have been in the mortgage industry since 1999. I am federally registered, which means that I can do loans in almost every state. Just New York, Hawaii, and Rhode Island are the only three that I cannot do loans in, but for purchases, refinances on
primary, secondary, or investment purchases. I’m your girl, AKA the honey with the money.
Zach Townsend
yeah, yeah.
So we see a lot of these crossovers in the cases that we handle where you just said refinance. Sometimes we have situations where refinance is required. So that would be where you have a couple people that are married and one of them wants the home, but they both are on it.
Dee, would you tell me a little bit about what it means to be quote unquote on the home.
Dee Valentino
Yeah, so there’s a couple different things. There is being on the mortgage and being on title. So you can be on title without being on the mortgage, but you can’t be on the mortgage without being on title. So.
Zach Townsend
I see. Okay. So quote on title means that you are an owner and or a co-owner. have some kind of ownership interest. And so on title is kind of the shorthand for you are named on the deed. Right. Okay. Okay. So sometimes in the divorce cases that I’ve handled, we’ll have a situation where
Dee Valentino
Yes.
Correct? Yes.
Zach Townsend
There is both the parties to a marriage, the first and second spouse, both are on the deed, but not both on the mortgage. just one of them is on the mortgage. What ends up happening from my experience is it’s a much less, much, much less challenging situation than when
there is somebody who’s on the mortgage and on the deed, because when they’re on the deed only, then that could just be signed off, I think, with just a quit claim deed, right, Dave?
Dave Larson
Yeah, that sounds accurate, yep.
Zach Townsend
So you wouldn’t need to refinance to change ownership, right?
Dave Larson
Right, if it’s just on the mortgage, I mean, I don’t think Dee’s going to care.
Zach Townsend
Right. Right. So it seems to be from my cases that I’ve dealt with, and I’ve dealt with a lot of them, where it can be a huge challenge to accomplish the refinance. But so long as you have the legal description to prepare the deed, there’s nothing really standing in your way besides the stroke of that pen. So Dee, can you tell us about why it’s sometimes more difficult to get?
someone’s name off of the mortgage.
Dee Valentino
Yes, so in divorce situations when you, let’s say, have the husband on the mortgage, husband and wife on the deed, but the wife wants the house, she has to, well, they not only have to do a quit claim, take the husband off, but she’s got to be able to qualify for that mortgage and she’s going to have to refinance to take him completely off. And sometimes that doesn’t,
work out. You know, she’s got to have that viable income.
Zach Townsend
Right, right. Okay. So to be eligible and then to qualify means you have to have like certain credit worthiness, right?
Dee Valentino
Credit score, income, you know, there are specific guidelines that lenders look at to qualify somebody to get a mortgage. it’s refinance, it’s really like buying a house. So you go through those same steps.
Zach Townsend
I see. So it’s like the person who’s awarded the house and the marriage or the divorce is buying it from themselves and from their spouse. Okay.
Dee Valentino
Correct.
Yes. Basically, yeah, that’s true.
Zach Townsend
I see.
I see. I see. Okay. Now Dee, when you’re trying to determine whether somebody can refinance, are you able to look into the eligibility when, know, without actually applying, can you give, can you look at the, cause what I’ve, what I’ve been told, what I’ve, my understanding is that there’s some kind of like matrix or something where if you have all the information, you could look at somebody who’s looking to
get a mortgage or a loan for a home and you could find out about their eligibility without, well, at least get a really good sense without submitting the application. Is that right?
Dee Valentino
In essence, yes, it is true. As long as I know what their current monthly debts are and what their gross monthly income is, I can figure out what their debt ratio is. A lot of people use different avenues to get their credit scores. However, mortgage credit scores are…
there’s different algorithms that determine those scores. So credit karma, which is a common use of scoring, may say that you’re in the 700s, but when your credit gets pulled for a mortgage, now you’re in the 600s because there are, like I said, there’s different algorithms used in the scoring. It’s a little more stringent.
with mortgage scoring. So, you know, I can do a preliminary based on their debts, but until I see their payment history, collections they may have forgotten about, and their actual scores, I can’t determine, you know, if they’re going to be pre-approved.
Zach Townsend
Sure, sure. And sometimes I’ll have a client who is looking to be awarded the home, which means that they have to buy out their soon to be ex-spouse. now I’ve heard, I’ve only heard stories and this is where maybe you shed some light on it for me. The client will sometimes come back to me and say, spoke to somebody at the bank or the home lending group or whomever. And they say that if I,
stick with my current job for another three months or five months at the income that I’m at, then they think I’ll qualify at that point, three months down the road, five months down the road. So is that something that we could bring into the divorce case? They’ll ask me and of course I’ll tell them, yes, that’s part of the calculus now and the judge maybe needs to know that, but why don’t you tell me from your end? Do I have that right? Is that one of the ways that you could kind of like forecast it out?
Dee Valentino
Yes, that definitely that’s something that me as a lender that that I could do to get that going. We you know, we see that all the time. People are not yet divorced, but they’re interested in getting things going so that they’ve got all their T’s crossed and I’s dotted by the time the divorce becomes final.
So that’s definitely something that I can do.
Zach Townsend
Well, that’s neat. That’s nice because I, it’s always helpful to be able to, you know, get started on your goal instead of waiting until, after something that maybe doesn’t need to happen first, you know, gets done. so to be able to forecast that because, you know, this is life planning and people are trying to close this chapter of their life and move on to the next chapter and, you know, do this, adult stuff. And if they could say, okay,
90 days from now, I should be eligible. That’s super helpful for, from, from my perspective as an advisor and somebody guiding people going through a divorce, you know, through this process, because, that, that helps people be able to plan, gives them a, you know, kind of a, a future to, to look towards. but what happens then, when I guess I should say when they don’t qualify, when they can’t.
boosted up when they don’t have a forecast that looks promising at all. Well, then the only way I think to get the name off of the loan, Dave, do you know how to sell the house, right?
Dave Larson
Yeah, I was going to say you’re probably going to have to sell. And, you know, one thing I thought of is really how we help all of us in our world try to make this as stress free or stress reduced as possible. Like it’s never going to be free, but through divorce, through home purchasing, through refinance, like all of that has stress related to it. But pulling in the professionals will help to alleviate that. Right. So, you know, sometimes just being impartial, right, is always going to be key. you know, when I get a request for.
Zach Townsend
Right, big time.
Dave Larson
you know, do an evaluation on home. don’t have quote unquote skin in the game with either of the parties. I look at the property, look at the comps, you know, make some assumptions because sometimes I haven’t been in the property. So I can’t be a hundred percent accurate based on condition. And I’m just going to assume it’s in, you know, condition of when they bought it, right? You know, I don’t know if there’s now holes all in the walls because people were upset or if they’ve, know,
updated kitchens and baths and stuff along those lines as well. So it’s always going to be a range in that realm. my goal is to help give them a good idea of what that price is. Hopefully then also do some preliminary title search to see is there any liens and issues that are going to be out there on the property that maybe they didn’t all tell. I think as Dee was saying, yeah, we can give you some ideas. And as soon as you actually pull the credit report, you’re seeing what the whole story is.
And now that story can change. So I would say the more we know in all of our industries, the better we can help make that as less stress as possible. yes, to answer your question, yeah, let’s sell the house.
Zach Townsend
All right. All right. Hey, Dave, just one quick question. What’s a title search?
Dave Larson
Title search is basically goes back to look at that deed that was filed and did anyone go put additional liens on the property. So whether it was a roofer, you know, didn’t get paid. So they are saying you still owe me a portion of this house, you know, to get my debt paid. It could be, you know, fines from the city that could go on there. But basically when you buy or purchase a home, you want to have clear title, making sure
that when you buy the home, you truly own the home and the person who’s selling the home has the ability to sell the home. Because unfortunately there’s lots of fraud out there in the world and a great one right now is getting a message about selling land. So lots of land requests. So we get a message, hey, will you sell my lot of land? And I go back up and look up the information and I, through my realtor ways, can contact the actual owner, confirm if they’re buying or selling, and if they don’t respond,
I will do a preliminary title search to make sure I’m talking to the right person who can make these decisions on behalf of the property.
Zach Townsend
So you want to make sure there’s clean title.
Dave Larson
clean, as clean as can be.
Zach Townsend
So what is clean title and why is it desirable?
Dave Larson
Clean title basically is just saying you are the only one that owns it. No one else has any rights or requests to this home So now I can give it to the new buyer who now the buyers Assured that there is no one who’s gonna come back after and say no This is you know, my home or you owe me money from this home So it’s it’s it’s setting that specific path so you can see the order of homeownership of that property at the end of the day That’s in my layman’s terms
Zach Townsend
I see. Now, there insurance for
that?
Dave Larson
There is absolute insurance for that. So that way, the title company even makes a mistake along those lines, there’s protections in place for the buyer or seller.
Zach Townsend
Now, before we get to the point of having to list the home for sale and, and to sell it, there are quite a few other steps, really almost an infinite number of possibilities that could have an in between them as, as you two know, as, as well as, as well as anybody knows. one of the questions I get pretty often is, can I change the locks?
Dave Larson
Absolutely.
Zach Townsend
So that’s not an easy question to answer because under landlord-tenant law you cannot just change the locks. You don’t get to, because a person doesn’t pay rent or shouldn’t be there, to just change the locks simply because you want to, you know, deem them a trespasser. So what would need to happen is
You need to go to eviction court normally to get that taken care of because you’re not supposed to change the locks. But what happens sometimes people do change the locks. and when a landlord does that, you know, not necessarily crime, even if it is breaking the law in the same kind of sense, same kind of way. if a person who’s got a spouse locks their spouse out changes the locks on the home, that’s not a crime, but it’s not.
supposed to be that way. You’re not supposed to do it that way. And the only time where you’re supposed to do it that way without permission is if there’s some kind of risk of harm. And so if there’s a domestic abuse type of situation or other serious type of risk of harm, depending on the context, well, then maybe you could change the locks. So that’s a tough one, though, because that’s very
difficult to enforce that sort of thing. And a lot of times it’s too late by the time that it, you know, there’s any accountability that people have already moved out. So, that’s, that’s definitely a tough one because, people break that law pretty frequently. but that’s, that’s one that I get, that’s one that I get a lot. I’m sure that you both get that and other types of, you know, similar questions about people and they’re like, I got to move out, but can I move out? And do I have to know? And what happens when I do and all that kind of thing.
Dave Larson
yeah, absolutely.
Zach Townsend
So what other types of situations have you seen where they, you have you gotten any questions where you’re like, Hmm, maybe a lawyer should, should answer that.
Dave Larson
yeah, def, I mean, definitely the landlord stuff, right? Because of all the different rights there, it seems so like it should be cut and dry, but it’s not, you know, it depends on the area that you’re in, whether they’re more landlord friendly or tenant friendly. And did you file the right paperwork in order to cover? And like, I personally don’t deal with many of that. I’m going to refer them to the parties because it’s just not my niche, when it comes down to it, because I don’t do direct.
property management myself and I don’t want to tell someone go ahead and change the locks. That’s not going to be a good recommendation coming from me.
Zach Townsend
Right, right. Now, technically landlord tenant law does apply when you have two people live in in the same dwelling that are married, they’re spouses. Landlord tenant law still applies. And the thing is though, if one of the parties tries to evict their spouse, they file for an eviction. What normally is going to happen is the eviction judge is going to say,
This really looks a lot more like something that belongs in divorce court. So I’m going to send you to the divorce court judge. So that’s normally what would happen when there is a situation where there’s a married couple and they end up having to deal with an eviction because there are eviction sort of tools that are within or inside of a divorce case. So
As part of a divorce case, while the divorce is pending, what we do sometimes for our clients is we’ll have them be granted exclusive possession of the marital residence. And what happens then is they get to boot out, basically evict their spouse. So if there’s a domestic abuse situation or a situation where the cops are involved or somebody’s getting arrested or under the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act
When there is a jeopardy to the physical or psychological wellbeing of the parties due to the mutual occupancy of the home, well, then one of them could be removed. And that’s a lot like an eviction. So, sorry, I cut you off, Dave, but I had to jump in because I’ve seen that before. They’ll send it, you know, lawyer normally wouldn’t be the one to do it, but maybe someone who’s self-represented will file an eviction against their spouse. It gets sent to the divorce case.
Dave Larson
Good. Very good.
Zach Townsend
Because that’s where it would belong. Do ever see any issues with property or people trying to get their stuff or take their stuff or something like that, Dave, when you’re selling or when you’re helping someone sell a house?
Dave Larson
Yeah, I mean it does happen. I mean, the benefit on my end is there’s usually the attorneys involved, right? So I’m always going back to the attorney, you know, and this is what the request was, you know, what is, what is the recommendation? What is it that was already agreed upon? again, trying to make it easy so that way I can sometimes be that buffer in between where, you know, if it’s needed, if I need to meet the person over there, you know, need to give them access.
Zach Townsend
Okay.
Dave Larson
What does that look like? Block out times to make sure that they have the access. But end of the day, it is reaching out to the attorney or looking like what was in that decree in essence saying who gets what time and whatnot and just always go back to that. if, know, luckily on my end haven’t had them without an attorney, at least on some side, because you’re, you’re the guy, you’re the guy, Zach.
Dee Valentino
Ha
Zach Townsend
Well,
thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But you know, the judges, they don’t like when people fight over pots and pans. And anything that’s under 200, 300, $300 or so, the judge will say, well, that’s arguing over pots and pans. We don’t do that here. So that’s one way to frustrate your judge is to argue over personal property.
You know, one question I get a lot is does the person who moves out first forfeit the home? Do I lose rights to my home because I moved out? And the answer is no, you still get to keep your ownership rights. doesn’t affect what you would get if the home were bought out by the other spouse or if it were sold with the proceeds split.
you don’t lose your ownership, just because you move out. Now, the only place where that could matter and change things is, if you want to stay living there, because if you move out and you think, okay, I’ll just move back in next week. Well, you might not be able to quite so easily do that. So if you want it to be your forever home, or if you want the house to be awarded as part of, the, divorce to you.
then moving out could have an effect on, you know, why if someone else has to move out to, so you can move back in, why don’t we just leave it the way it already is? So there’s a little bit of a fait accompli, you know, let’s just kind of the natural direction of things, but that’s minimal compared to this real prevalent myth that I’m sure you both have heard about where people think, well, if they move out, then they’re going to end up losing.
Dave Larson
Yeah, they automatically
lose their rights. I’ve heard that from other agents before that they’ve had that concern. And I’m like, you know, based in this divorce portion, right? Number one, speak with the attorney. But also if that’s the case and that’s the reason that they’re moving out, they didn’t move out two years ago and, you know, abandon the house and abandoned payments and everything else. think then you have a story, right? To that extent. But as long as you are doing your obligations of paying a mortgage and you’re moving out of
the divorce proceedings in on my end, I would go the same route with you, absolutely.
Zach Townsend
So who does have the obligation to pay the mortgage?
Dee Valentino
whose ever name is on that mortgage. That who needs to pay that.
Zach Townsend
All right.
That is a good point because that’s a contractual obligation that that person signed themselves up to, right? With that lender, right, Dee?
Dee Valentino
That’s
that’s absolutely right.
Zach Townsend (20:34)
Okay. So what if they are not awarded the home? they still on the hook for that, loan according to the bank?
Dee Valentino
Yes,
according to the bank, unless it is refinanced to take their name off of that loan, they are obligated for as long as the term of the loan is.
Zach Townsend
Hmm. Even if they’re not awarded the home, right?
Dee Valentino
Correct, unfortunately, and I’ve seen that. I recently had somebody who was divorced about 15 years ago, and the ex-spouse was supposed to refinance the home to take my client’s name off and hadn’t, hasn’t been able to, just didn’t qualify to do that.
that can be an issue sometimes is not being able to qualify for that mortgage. So my client’s name is still on the house. It has been quit claimed off the deed. So he’s not on the deed, but he is responsible for the mortgage.
Zach Townsend
Wow. Okay. Okay. You see what we do when we have the divorce papers or the divorce judgment, or sometimes they call it the marital settlement agreement, is we will include a specific period of time by which the refinance has to occur. And if the refinance has not occurred by, let’s say six months or maybe it’s two years, you know, it really can depend.
It’s usually not much longer than that because, you know, the idea is that a person who’s got that name, like your client Dee as you had alluded to, probably wants to buy their own home. And if that person wants to get their own place that they can own, then well, they’re already coming up as someone who has a home when there’s a credit check done. So the bank says, okay, you’re not the type of person to maybe have.
two homes at the same time with your income and debt and so forth. So that person’s turned down because their ex spouse has not refinanced as required to do. So if they don’t refinance within a certain period of time, well, that could be subject to potentially contempt of court, which is the inherent enforcement authority that the court has to
require and force people to compel with, know, and comply with the court’s order. But what we normally do is we’ll have in right in the divorce decree right there in the judgment for dissolution of marriage that if a refinance is not able to be accomplished, then after X period of time, then the home will be, we go from Dee to Dave, then the home will be listed.
And we’re not doing a refinance anymore. We’re done, you know, just messing around with that because you could see that after how many years, you know, it’s not going to work. Or if it does, it shouldn’t be on the person that ends up stuck with that on their credit, even though they don’t own the home anymore.
Dee Valentino
So there are a couple ways around the debt. And in this case, we had to provide the divorce papers that said that the ex-spouse did get the house. We provided the tax bill that showed just that it was just in the ex-spouse’s name.
And we were able to omit that debt from his debt ratio so that he would qualify for his new home purchase. he’s technically still obligated in the original lender’s eyes, but for qualifying purposes for a new home purchase, we can omit that debt as long as we have those documents.
Zach Townsend
Was it the same lender or was it a different lender? okay. Well, that was nice of them. So, yeah.
Dee Valentino
Different lender, completely different lender.
Dave Larson
Yeah.
Dee Valentino
That’s
standard really throughout the mortgage industry when it comes to that. But then again, it’s still reporting on his credit report. And if the ex-spouse is not making the payments on time or if it goes into foreclosure, that’s going to reflect in my client’s credit scores. And the lender can.
Zach Townsend
I see.
Dee Valentino
go after him for the debt.
Zach Townsend
I see. And you had said that it’s omitted from the criteria for eligibility, right? But according to the lender, the original lender, it’s still owed. So you had said something, I think you said, under the eyes or in the eyes of the original lender. And I’m thinking to myself, well, in the eyes of the law, because that’s a contract where that person still owes that money to that lender, to that original initial lender.
Dee Valentino
Yes.
Yes.
Dave Larson
you
Dee Valentino
You
Zach Townsend
and, you know, guess it’s not, you know, I said it was nice, but I guess it’s, it’s not so nice when they retain their opportunity to squeeze him down the road. If like, you know, the former spouse were to pass away, for example, it’s not so nice that they’re going to just forgive the debt because they’re not doing that. They’re just omitting it from the eligibility. That’s really good to know. That’s useful. That’s useful information. So I’ve got a question for you. Do you know, and it kind of in the same
kind of in the same vein. Do you know if there’s any way to remove someone’s name from the loan without refinancing or getting Dave Larson to sell it? Is there a loan restructuring opportunity where, if you qualify for some remote or rare, circumstance that you could have your name removed from the debt, even if
There’s not a refinance that occurs.
Dee Valentino
No, there’s no way to do it. That original lender is going to look at whatever the… They need to make sure that the ex-spouse is going to qualify to be able to make the payment. So they’re going to look at their income and they’re going to look at their current debts. So…
Technically, they could do a refinance without doing a refinance. There may be a bank or two that is willing to do that, especially a local bank that might have a portfolio program, something like that. But I would say 99 times out of 100, that’s not doable.
Zach Townsend
So it’s all well and good when you’re awarded the home in the divorce, but what happens, Dave, when one of the spouses refuses to sign the listing agreement?
Dave Larson
Yeah, that’s a good question and one I don’t like to have to deal with.
Zach Townsend
Is it because you have to get the lawyers involved?
Dave Larson
Yeah, I mean, really that’s what it is. Again, trying to get them amicable to each other. They both have the story. So for me, it’s best having both of the contact information. Because again, I’m that third party. I’m not the attorney. You know, I’m not the spouse. So I found that it works well when I’m given all the contact information. I reach out, I let them know here, I’m here to help you guys. I know this is a, you know, a situation you don’t want to be in. However,
You know, my job is to make this as smooth as possible. And when I get both of their contact information, it’s great because it tends to work better, but it doesn’t always happen. So yes, I’m like, yeah, I can’t get a hold, can’t get a hold. They’re not answering. They’re not doing anything. Zach, where do we go from here?
Zach Townsend
So you call the lawyer. You call the lawyer for the person who’s not signing, the lawyer for the ex of the person who’s not signing or both.
Dave Larson
There you go.
whichever I’m needed. Yeah, and it’s really more to notification, right? My job, one of my key jobs is communication and to make sure all the parties are knowing what’s going on and how that’s going on and the better we do with that, the better everything goes. So, you know, it’s always going to be, you know, back to that attorney. You’re like, hey, just, know, everything’s good. Everything’s signed. We’re moving forward. Here’s the date. Or here’s the fifth time I’ve tried. They’re not responding. I can’t meet up with them.
Zach Townsend
Whoever will answer the phone, right?
Dave Larson
tag you’re it.
Zach Townsend
Okay, so what happens if your expertise is to sign the listing agreement? What happens is you need to hire an attorney, you need to file a motion for contempt, you need to enforce your rights, you need to ask the court to order or mandate or compel this person to sign the listing agreement. It’s contempt of court if they don’t and that can include incarceration. So…
In some instances, what has happened is somebody was so steadfast on their refusal to sign a listing agreement. Judge puts that person in jail and says, sir, you hold the keys to the jail cell. As soon as you sign that listing agreement, I will let you out. And that is called a purge requirement. And I’ve seen that before and that’s part of how it works when somebody is ordered to do something and they…
they don’t do it. Or what happens if your ex refuses to agree to accept an offer? An offer is made. The buyer says, I’d like to reduce it by $300 because of this landscaping issue. Of course, Dave, aren’t you going to say, yeah, sold, right? You’re not going to, right. But except the person who is trying to obstruct the sale, maybe they’re living there.
Dave Larson
Makes sense, makes sense, let’s go.
Dee Valentino
you
Zach Townsend
Says no, won’t do that. I only agreed to the amount that we listed it for again that could be remedied by contempt of court
What if the person who is living in the home doesn’t want the home to be sold? Okay, well this is common because who wants to move? A. B. If you have to get a new place and get a new rent or get a new mortgage or you know have some other alternate plans for how to get this
You’re moving, you’re finding a new place to live. So if you’re doing that, then if you stall it, it might actually be better for you financially because you don’t have to pay for that, or you could continue to pay towards the balance of the mortgage before you leave. So what happens when there needs to be a showing and that person is just always unavailable? What happens when that person refuses to get the home into show shape?
what happens when, they answer in their bathrobe, and the home just doesn’t look attractive. Well, that’s part of that person obstructing what they’re required to do. and so we have tools for that. have a contempt of court tools, and we also have tools that would allow us to, change control, maybe, remove that person from the home, boot them out of the home, give exclusive possession to that other person who actually has an interest and.
a motivation to get the home sold.
Dave Larson
Hey, I
was going to say I think a good question that goes along with those is what does that timetable look like, right? Us as realtors, we don’t always know that answer. Again, that stress part. So you say, contempt the court. We’ve got to go that route. That’s something that we can use. Assume everything moves smoothly, right, with that, whatever that looks like. What does that timetable look like?
Zach Townsend
Well, it’s a good question and it depends on how that person responds in terms of do they send counsel to fight for this? Do they have some kind of an excuse where they say, well, no, I’m actually not listing it because the realtor says that if we take care of this improvement or this issue or this problem, then it’ll be more likely to get sold and it’ll be worth that small investment. So I’m just doing what the realtor says. So.
There will be all these excuses and things like that. but, uh, it depends on the judge. It depends on the situation in terms of whether the person who was not awarded the home is seeking to buy a home and is blocked as a result. Are they, are their hands being tied, uh, uh, harming them or would they be hanging out in an apartment or they’d be living in an apartment anyway? Because if that were the case, then it wouldn’t really wouldn’t hurt them quite so much.
It also matters too, whether or not the bill, the mortgage is being paid in the interim before it’s sold. If the mortgage isn’t being paid, it’s more likely to get sold in the contempt process to move more quickly. Where if it is being paid and there is no issue with the credit worthiness of the person finding that other home, or it’s not a big problem to have these people connected still through this loan.
Well then it might not take as long of a time. So it really is going to depend.
Dee Valentino
So we have a question for you. Say somebody has owned their home prior to getting married and that home is exclusively in their name. Can the spouse whose name is not on it get that in the divorce?
Zach Townsend
Good question. So it starts with the marital estate understanding that all assets acquired during the course of a marriage are presumed to be marital assets. So all the assets that belong to both spouses are considered to be in the quote marital estate. So if a home is purchased before the marriage, then it’s not acquired during the course of the marriage and not presumed to be a marital asset for that reason.
So the short answer would be if the home was owned by one spouse prior to the marriage and there was not a commingling of assets or anything else that would cause the home to
lose its identity. So it’s no longer the same house anymore. Then it could be construed to be a marital asset. Another way that people commonly will cause a home to be, well, to go from non-marital to marital is by just adding their spouse to the deed. It’s very common thing to do. Dee’s nodding her head because very common in refinance situations.
The home is owned prior to the marriage by one party, and then they refinance during the marriage. Why would we not put the other party and put both of them on the deed while we’re at it? And a lot of times they’ll say, it’s because I thought, if I were to, you know, what if that person were to die, then I would get the house. That’s for the protection of that. Well, the divorce judge normally doesn’t care about that. Divorce judge would normally say, what that
action that gesture symbolizes was that it was a gift now to the marriage. So now, because that spouse was added to the deed, they now are a part owner, and it’s no longer considered to be pre-marital. Another way that a home could be no longer considered to be pre-marital is when there is an addition or an improvement, or let’s say it was a
two-bedroom home and then there was some construction done and walls knocked down, now it’s a four-bedroom home. Well, it’s no longer the same home. And so even if the deed is not changed and that person who did not own the home first is not added to the deed, because of what occurred during that time, during the marriage, it could be construed to be
potentially a marital asset. Now there are a lot of situations where it ends up being kind of blurred lines where maybe somebody puts a down payment on and do they get their down payment back? Or sometimes it’ll be, okay, it was in the spouse’s name, but they paid all the mortgage payments, say that the person who did not own the first, the spouse, is paid for all the mortgage payments.
or put a new roof on it, paid for that new roof. So there are all kinds of situations where people want to get some of the money that they put in back out, which often does happen, that often is the case, especially if they put that money that’s theirs or that they earned into it and it’s traceable. And you could see that in the records. Sometimes you can get that back, but the short answer is no.
Unless it’s commingled or changes identity or somehow becomes part of the marital estate, if it’s purchased before the marriage, it stays as the sole property of the person who bought it before the marriage.
Dee Valentino
Good to know.
Dave Larson
Yeah,
I think it just depends on how much you can dig and find out how you can say, just by putting the blinds up feels like it was commingled.
Zach Townsend
Yeah, yeah.
One of the questions I get a lot too has to do with parental rights because we deal with a lot of custody cases or divorce cases that involve children. And some people think that if I get the house, then I’m going to get more time with the kids. If I get the house, then I’m going to get custody of the kids. Now, is that true?
Not necessarily, no. But it’s not uncommon either for the person who is awarded the majority of the parenting time to also be awarded the home, because the children normally should remain in the home. And that’s part of the idea sometimes in a case like this, where it could be kind of disruptive for the kids to have, could be disruptive for the kids to have to move or to have a different place that’s not as familiar.
So lot of times they want to keep the kid where they’re accustomed to and in their own room and in their own bed, where they are very used to it. So it could help a little bit if you’re trying to pursue custody or the majority of the parenting time. If you’re the one that’s living in the home, if you want to have the majority of the parenting time, if you leave the home, then it might end up causing the person who you thought was just going to be in every other weekend, dad.
having a lot more time because the kids like to go to that home. So in that sense, it could relate to the parenting time issue because it’s sort of common sense. Kids are comfortable in their own home. So a lot of times the judges want to keep them there.
What other questions do you have for me? Anything?
Dave Larson
Well, I think the one that comes up in our world as realtors are, how do you get picked as the realtor in this scenario, right? There’s a divorce along those lines. How is that realtor determined between both parties? Is it assigned by the judge? What does that look like for the real estate agent so they know, should I be working with this client?
Zach Townsend
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think that’s a good kind of overlap between what you do and what I do, because I can imagine that it takes a certain amount of lack of cooperation before you just pull the plug and you say, maybe I can’t do this anymore because they’re resisting, despite what the paperwork says. sometimes the, the, the marital settlement agreement or the divorce decree will lay that out. And that’s where you would find that information. It’s all in a court order. And if it’s not in a court order,
Well, then it might be a problem because it might be leaving the people to their own, their own devices. so, you know, I’ve had court orders where the realtor is specifically named in the court order. so for example, the, court hereby orders that the parties shall list their residents with Dave Larson, you know, so that could happen. could just spell out the realtor right there. Another common approach is that it’ll say that.
The home will be listed with an agreed upon realtor. So that requires and kind of presumes that there would be an agreement between the parties to choose that realtor. Now, if there’s not an agreement, they have to go back to court and fight it out. A lot of times what people will do is they’ll end up using the realtor that sold them the house or that helped them out in the past. So, that’s a common thing where, it’s a way to overcome an issue because obviously, you know, I don’t want my spouses,
you know, uncle Bob to be the realtor, when we could have somebody else who’s got a distance, somebody else who’s got, you know, like an arm’s length transaction or distance for the transaction. another common approach that happens. And again, this should be spelled out right in the marital settlement agreement or the divorce decree. So everyone knows where they stand. It will require, one spouse to provide a list of say five proposed realtors names within two weeks.
And then within a week or two thereafter, the person who received that list picks one person off that list. And that’s how the realtor is chosen. But as far as I know, the person that chooses the realtor is the seller. so absent a court order, they have to agree to it. Right. Dave.
Dave Larson
Yeah, yeah, accurate.
Dee Valentino
I have a question for you. Is it common or have you come across somebody wanting to buy a house prior to the divorce becoming final? And is it considered marital property if they’re still married?
Zach Townsend
So you are putting yourself in a position where you could end up having your ex or soon to be ex, lay claim or try to lay claim to the real estate that you purchased because you purchased it during the marriage. it’s pretty common. have people come to me. They say, I would like to buy real estate. Obviously this divorce is so I could close this chapter of my life and open the next chapter. And part of that is to get a home. And so that’s what I’d like to do besides,
I don’t want to live with my spouse anymore. They’re still at the home. I need a place to live. Unfortunately, I ended up saying often just get an apartment for a short term because if you purchase a home, your ex or your soon to be ex could lay a claim, you know, can make a claim and try to say that’s theirs. Even if they don’t try to take it as far as the possession or to be awarded that asset upon dissolution. If you’ve got a screaming deal.
And you don’t get divorced for another six or 12 months. That home might be worth a lot more. And then you would have to share that equity with your, soon to be ex in a manner that is quote fair and equitable into the law, which might mean 50 50. A lot of times that’s what that means. So, what you would want to do is get an agreement where the judge approves also of both parties agreement that an individual can.
make a purchase of real estate without having a risk of the other side laying a claim to that asset. Sometimes if there’s not an agreement, what we can do is we can file a motion to ask for permission to acquire real estate that keeps it their own. This is one of those situations where it really shouldn’t be an issue, but it often is. Sometimes it’s because of gamesmanship. Sometimes it’s because people don’t know what they want by the time they’re done here. But what it usually is about is that
One person already is, we already know, everybody agrees that one of these say, say it’s the husband in this instance is going to be awarded the home. What that means is that even though they haven’t been awarded it yet, we kind of operate on that premise. So if we know that that’s what’s going to happen, then there’s no reason that another person can’t, you know, the other spouse can’t find a place to live, kind of get a jump on that next chapter of their life. But a lot of times just to be safe.
we end up having to wait until the dissolution because it’s without a court order saying that it’s protected, it’s not gonna be completely safe.
Dee Valentino
Yeah, well, from a lenders point of view, because the divorce isn’t finalized, and it doesn’t specifically states that the soon to be ex spouse is going to get the other house and be responsible for the mortgage payments, we have to qualify them with the new home purchase mortgage payment and the current home mortgage payment.
So, and that can be tough as well.
Zach Townsend
Hmm. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I didn’t think of it in terms of the lender’s perspective. They might say that’s just too much of a risk. so we’re not even going to, offer it to you. Interesting. Interesting. I’ve got another question. You might know the answer to Dee, do, do the lenders require that the child support or alimony orders in a divorce case be provided to the mortgage company when somebody’s
acquiring alone.
Dee Valentino
Absolutely, because if they’re paying child support, that is considered a debt. And it has to be disclosed. If they’re receiving child support, that can be used as income, depending on how long they’ve been receiving it and how long they will receive it in the future.
FHA requires that you have at least a 12 month history. So FHA, VA, USDA, you need a 12 month history of receiving child support. And you have to have a document, an official document stating that. And it has to continue for three years after the note date.
And for conventional, they have to have received it for at least six months, and it has to continue for an additional three years. And then we can consider that as income.
Zach Townsend
Wow, okay, that’s really good information. didn’t know that.
Dave Larson
What’s the benefit that you see where someone says they don’t want to use it as income? Because I believe that’s an option too. Is it not where they can say, don’t want to use this as income for the reason to qualify for the loan? Do see why that’s a benefit to the borrower in that situation?
Dee Valentino
They don’t have to disclose that as income. However, if they’re divorced, you know, on their application, they’re going to list if they have children or not. We still have to see that because then we, whether they choose to use it as income or not, we still have to verify that they are not responsible for paying child support because then it becomes a debt.
Zach Townsend
Is it treated differently if there’s a, say like a large child support or arrearage?
Dee Valentino
Yeah, that will show on their credit report and that has to be paid in full before they will be allowed to get a mortgage.
Zach Townsend
counts.
Well…
Dee Valentino
And that includes tax liens. They have to be in some kind of payment plan for any kind of significant arrearage. And we have to have proof of that and proof that payments are being made in a timely manner. And depending on tax liens, you have to have made at least three months of
on time payments and you can’t pay three months at once. It’s got to be three individual payments. So there’s all kinds of hoops to jump through when it comes to collections and liens and judgments and things like that. We look at all of that before approving somebody.
Zach Townsend
Right,
right. And now let’s at the front end. Now, going to the back end, I’ve got a question I’ve been wondering. If my name is on the deed, but not on the mortgage, and the home is foreclosed on, would that affect my credit even though I wasn’t on the loan?
Dee Valentino
It will, it won’t show on your credit report because you were never part of the mortgage. However,
Zach Townsend
Is this
that special credit report you were telling us about earlier that the lenders use?
Dave Larson
you
Dee Valentino
Yes.
Zach Townsend
Okay, so on your regular credit report it won’t come
up, but for a home loan it would.
Dee Valentino
So we also do, we research liens and deeds. And that foreclosure would come up on that. That is something that’s done besides pulling credit because there are issues that have come up where somebody
went through, got a loan or a mortgage through maybe a creditor that doesn’t report to the three bureaus. So by using this other system that looks at liens, we would find that information out. And that can be an issue in being able to get a new home.
It would def, it would show up there.
Zach Townsend
Wow, okay. Yeah, that’s in depth.
Dee Valentino
It is. And that is monitored throughout the home buying process because we want to make sure, you know, back in the early 2000s, was a, there’s still fraud going on, but there was a lot more fraud. And when you would have straw buyers, they would sometimes be
not only straw buyers, but other buyers are people refinancing. They would refinance with several companies at the same time, close on the same day. And, you know, they take out a refinance for $200,000 with three different mortgage companies and end up with $600,000. So we monitor to make sure that if they’ve applied somewhere else that those
you know, they didn’t move forward with those loans.
Zach Townsend
Wow. What a racket. What a racket. I’ve heard people do that with doctor shopping, never a home lender shopping. That’s wild. Wow. That’s something. Okay, Dave, question for you.
Dee Valentino
Mm-hmm.
Dave Larson
you
Dee Valentino
Yeah.
Zach Townsend
Do I need a realtor if I’m buying my ex out?
Dave Larson
I always just want to say always when you say do I need a realtor? in that situation, not necessarily. Really, we can still help sometimes with the process, but really we’re not involved in that scenario. If just you want to buy the X out, that’s an attorney, an agreement, and the likelihood we need to be involved is not. Now, we like to know about it because somebody’s getting bought out. That means someone may need to buy a home.
So we can go help that person, but no, technically we do not.
Zach Townsend
Okay,
okay. So what about an attorney? When you are attending a real estate closing, do you recommend having an attorney present for that?
Dave Larson
Yeah, it’s always good to have that additional protection and someone dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s. Definitely have been everything moving smooth and the day before the day of things go sideways. Sellers don’t want to show up. Buyers did something completely different and they sometimes need that realization of what that contract means.
Zach Townsend
Mm-hmm.
Dave Larson
And though I can go through the contract with them, I’m still not an attorney to really go through the ramifications of what could happen if you choose not to move forward either party. And definitely having an attorney at that point can be good to protect you. But I’ve, you know, I’ve been to so many different closings where there should have been an attorney probably involved on the other side for whatever different type of reason that came up.
you know, issue was dealing with personal property left behind on the property and then who had ownership of it. Well, I mean, the contract is pretty clear that it would be owned by the, you know, the buyer if they left it there. However, there can be gray areas between that and definitely in the divorce scenario, as you said, not fighting over pots and pans, but who is dealing with the cost of cleaning that out if the, you know, the new buyer of the property is not, you know,
wanting that stuff to be left behind and who’s writing the check. So yeah, that’s one where my guidance can only go so far and you need that attorney involved to really clean up that scenario.
Zach Townsend
Sure.
Mm-hmm.
Right. Or
what would happen if say one of the sellers, you know, spouse A was supposed to provide that property to spouse B, but didn’t do that before the closing as required. Now, not only do you have this fee to remove it because of its trash to the new buyers, right? You have now that person who’s been deprived of their stuff. So that could be a potential
contempt of court issue. So now I don’t handle real estate transactions. We do family and matrimonial guardianships, divorce adoptions, things like that. So I don’t attend real estate closings to represent clients most of the time. So it’s really good to your take on it. So I appreciate that Dave.
Have you been in a situation before where, hold on, let me ask you this. You said that contract, isn’t there already a contract that’s a contract for purchase that’s been signed by the sellers and the buyers long before that closing happens?
Dave Larson
Right. Yeah. So exactly that you have a contract that’s, you know, enforceable. However, people sometimes don’t follow what the contract says, right? Just, just like they had the divorce decree that said you had to do this and they chose not to do it. What are the ramifications? Right. You know,
Zach Townsend
Okay.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
So
if they have to sell, they agree, okay, I’m gonna sell this person this home for this price and they don’t do it. They could be forced. If someone says, I don’t wanna buy that home or I don’t wanna sell my home anymore, they could be forced to sell it against their will because they signed the contract, right?
Dave Larson
Yeah, I mean, definitely on the sales side is, guess easier to, fo you know, force that, you know, it’s one thing to try to force a buyer to at the end of the day, you know, still close. That is, I would say pretty, pretty unheard of that end.
Zach Townsend
Yeah, sure.
I see. Because the seller is only
out money where the buyer is actually out home or real estate that’s unique and cannot be replaced, right? Is that the idea? Okay. Okay.
Dave Larson
home.
And there’s really no, you’re looking at the contract, there’s really not much for damages for the buyer to get. And just an earnest money potential check of, say $2,000 is not going to recoup getting to move into a home, right? That it was sold at a price they have both agreed upon with a closing date they both agreed upon. Again, you can sometimes move some dates around, again, from time to time, but physically getting in the property.
I mean, you can force that seller, you know, much easier than forcing a buyer, right? Buyers not going to buy it. They don’t have money. There’s only so much you can push them.
Zach Townsend
Now, if there’s a contract for sale that’s signed by some, like, you know, someone who wants to sell or buy for real estate, and the next day they say, I’ll change my mind. Is that something they could do?
Dave Larson
Well, within our contract you have an attorney privilege that is for five business days. So in theory through that five business days you would have time to in essence get out of the contract based on the attorney’s review of the contract and why the seller should be allowed to get out.
Zach Townsend
Okay.
Okay.
Okay, so that’s that line in
that contract that says that upon, however, is it set five days? So within five days, either party has the right to have an attorney review and a cancel or what do you call it? A decline, reject this and make it null and void if they do so within five days, that provision is still part of the standard form. Okay, interesting, interesting.
Dave Larson
Yep, five days.
Correct.
Zach Townsend
But then after the five days, can’t just, you know, no take backs then.
Dave Larson
Right. Yeah. Outside of, know, then it becomes the issues of all the contingencies, right? From appraisal contingency to inspection contingencies. Now, the buyer asks for something that the seller doesn’t want to give and they can’t come to an agreement, then the contract of course can be voided from that point on, but not just directly, you know, based on the seller. If the buyer just keeps moving forward and everything keeps meeting the dates that were, you know, put into the contract.
the seller really doesn’t have anything to stand on.
Zach Townsend
I see. One of the common questions I get a lot is who is responsible for paying for the home during the pendency of the sale. So that’s going to, again, you look back at the divorce decree or the court order or the judgment. What does the judge say? Listen to the judge. So if the judge says that normally what the judge would say is the person residing in the home.
has to be responsible for paying the household expenses during the pendency of the sale of the home. So if you could imagine most of these situations have one person from the marriage that still lives in the home and then another person who’s moved out. So then the person who’s living in the home, well, nobody gets to live for free, right? So they should have some kind of stake in it. They should have some kind of, you know, skin in the game. And if they’re paying for the utilities or the mortgage,
whatever the court order says, whatever the divorce decree or the judgment says, then, well, that’s their responsibility and that’s kind of their rent, so to speak. but then does that go towards their portion of the mortgage balance when that monthly, mortgage payment is made? or does it go to both of, you know, just the balance in general? it depends on what the, divorce decree or the marital settlement agreement says. if it, if it.
If it says that it’s going to all apply to one side, then it will. If it doesn’t mention it, then it’s going to be both of them or, you know, yeah, both parties to the marriage are going to be benefiting from that being paid down. So what happens if the furnace goes out? That could be something that’s left to, you know, leaves the parties to their own devices, so to speak.
Not something we want to do. We want to be able to plan for that. You might have to end up getting in court for that. But that’s not necessarily foreseeable. But then there are other issues that are like the utilities or the taxes. Who’s going to pay the taxes? Sometimes it takes a while before the home actually sells. All of that is set forth in a marital settlement agreement or a divorce decree. Same place where you would have the realtor named, listed, or whatever process by which the parties are going to.
get the home sold and they’re going to follow these rules of the road. That’s sort of what the marital settlement agreement is like. It’s like that roadmap and how that’s going to be carried out in the real estate sense is sort of what we’ve been discussing most of all today.
Mm-hmm.
Got it, okay. So then, one of you two wanna ask me about the value situation, value question?
Dee Valentino
Sure.
So I have a question for you in reference to appraisals, which is something I deal with all the time. know that if an appraisal comes for a purchase, the appraisal has to come in at least meet the purchase price or exceed that. What have you come across in reference to
Zach Townsend
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dee Valentino
values of homes when people are going through a divorce.
Zach Townsend
Sure,
yeah, really good question. And it’s interesting to hear how the appraisals work on the borrower and lender side, because I hear about how an appraisal is required as part of a loan or refinance or sale, something of that nature where there’s financing by a bank, because the bank needs to know about that, I guess, for their own protection when they extend the loan. So that’s good to know.
just to zoom out a little bit in divorce cases, all assets get a price tag. That’s sort of the premise to the divorce is that there’s almost like an inventory and all assets are valued and all debts are valued and everything gets a price tag and then it’s divvied up. That’s how the financial division works in a divorce case. So when you’re valuing property, you need to use the experts that know how to value
and that have authority on that subject and know how to value that type of stuff. So in a situation with real estate, it would be a licensed appraiser that would be able to tell us how much the home would be worth. the parties in a divorce case can agree, okay, both parties agree that this is the value of the home. And they don’t have to necessarily get it appraised. But
They can get it appraised. And a lot of times what they end up doing is if it wasn’t that long ago that it was purchased, they’ll use the purchase price or they have a rough sense of what they think it’s worth. If the neighbor’s home sold recently or if they go on to Zillow or realtor.com or something like that, some kind of amateur valuation tool that could work for them or they could just agree that it’ll be worth a hundred dollars. If that’s what they want, that’s what they can do.
Obviously the person who’s awarded the home would be getting a screaming deal and the person who get the quote unquote buyout wouldn’t get any buyout at all. But I just say that because theoretically it doesn’t matter if they agree. So long as they agree on the value, the judge is not going to say, I disagree on that value. So long as the parties agree on it, the judge is going to be satisfied. but what happens though when we get those
appraisers that, well, first off, that’s really the only thing the judge is going to listen to is the appraiser. Because if you have, like a Zillow and then a licensed appraiser, the licensed appraiser is always going to win. If you have a realtor.com or your assessment or something that is sort of like gives you a nice clue. Okay. Great. But the licensed appraiser is always going to win. So what happens when you think that the home is worth
a lot more than your ex who’s being awarded the home. Well, not uncommon. If your ex is being awarded the home, then your ex has an incentive to undervalue the home because that would benefit them if they’re being awarded it, right? So not uncommon for this to happen. If your ex got an appraisal and you don’t like what that appraiser, you know, the figure they came back with, then you can get your own appraisal.
and have, you know, each party could have their own expert and then it could be a battle of appraisers and there’ll be like a showdown. So question for you, Dave, how common is it that you would have two appraisers that are miles apart in what they believe to be the value of a particular piece of real estate?
Dave Larson
Well, generally speaking, your appraisals should be pretty close. You are going to see a difference, though, from time to time between what we call an AVM or an RVM, real estate valuation methods, CMA, comparative market analysis that realtors do, because we’re looking at the marketability of the property. So I’ve been in situations where I’ve marketed it both higher and lower than an appraiser.
when they are involved. An example of lower is the appraiser is really not doing too much of an evaluation on the overall condition of the property. They’re looking at it’s got two bedrooms, one bath, it’s 1200 square feet. It has a roof, it has doors, it has windows. Where I go in and you see that the kitchen all needs to be rehabbed, the bathroom needs to be rehabbed, the flooring needs to be replaced.
So if someone was buying that house on the open market, they are not going to offer as much of a price point because there’s $20,000 worth of work to be done. Okay. So in that scenario, the appraisal may have said, yeah, this house is worth, let’s just give you number 150,000, but on the market, it’s probably going to pull 120 because the amount of work that needs to be completed on the property to bring it to a consist a better value. Right. And then on the, on the flip side,
Zach Townsend
I
Dave Larson
They’re looking at, again, it’s a three bedroom, one bath, and it’s 1200 square feet, it’s $150,000. But it’s all been pristine compared to all of the other houses on the market that are in that same 1200 square foot, three bedroom, one bath, that now this house as a marketability might market at $10,000 or $20,000 above the appraised value. When it comes to that home, where Dee’s pulled in is if we are selling the home,
and we’re getting X for the price that the realtor and the clients came up with. At that point, now the appraiser is looking at, can I justify this price or close to it based on what the market is now? So it definitely differs. don’t know if, well, number one, I don’t think I’ve ever seen two appraisers ever do the same house at the same time recently. Dee, that’s more in your world where someone challenges an appraisal.
Dee Valentino
Right, right.
Dave Larson
I have never been part of a deal where again, a husband and wife who are now getting a divorce have paid for separate appraisers. and seeing that, but I have been on the flip side of I did an evaluation. Here’s why we want to go to the market. The other side, other party, and this was more in a probate type situation where they were saying, no, Dave’s an idiot. And I was able to show them we received five offers under.
the low value that I had put on the property.
So I said, if this appraisal is correct, why don’t we not have five offers that were $10,000 over the asking price that we put it on the market for? And they agreed with me. So again, marketability versus value can be two different things and be on both sides of that curve.
Zach Townsend
Okay.
Dave Larson
So I think I kind of prefaced it earlier when I talked was I will do evaluations, these CMAs for attorneys and husbands and wives and stuff like that. Sometimes sight unseen with just basic information. So until I walk through, it’s really the same as if I go on a listing presentation with any new client. They say, how much is my house worth, Dave? And I said, well, it’s going to be in this range, roughly.
And I need to go into your house and that’s the difference of as you said, Zillow realtor.com. They’ve never been in your house. They don’t know that you know the bathroom isn’t there anymore or you finished a whole lower level that’s not on there. They don’t have any of that idea.
Zach Townsend
Sure. Right.
Right.
Okay. Well, that’s really interesting. I don’t think I thought in those terms, the marketability compared to the value, because it sounds like the value doesn’t, you know, the praise value doesn’t necessarily take into account the cost of selling it or the benefit of an investment before selling it. Something along those lines. You know better than I do, Dave. I’m learning here. I’m learning here.
Dave Larson
Mm hmm.
Yeah, but yeah, pretty accurate.
Zach Townsend
Well, I appreciate that.
Well, Dave Larson with Keller Williams. Really appreciate your insight. Thank you so much for coming on today. And Dee Valentino from Waterstone Mortgage. Appreciate you as always. Thanks so much for coming on.
Dave Larson
Absolutely.
Dee Valentino
Thank you for having me.
Zach Townsend
Dave, how can people get ahold of you?
Dave Larson
Well, you can reach me multiple different ways. Number one, List with Larson is the thing to remember. And my phone number is 815-201-1227. I cover Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin. You can also reach me at ListWithLarson at kw.com. And thanks for letting me be on.
Zach Townsend
Excellent.
Of course. Appreciate it. And Dee, how can people reach you?
Dee Valentino
The best way to get a hold of me is through my cell phone, whether it’s a phone call or text message. And that phone number is area code 630-292-4595. Or you can email me at the letter D, my last name, Valentino at WaterstoneMortgage.com.
Zach Townsend
Well, thank you. Appreciate that. We’ll keep you in mind for all of our borrowing needs and you too, Dave, for all of our real estate needs.
If you’d like to schedule a consultation with me, go to ProLegalCare.com, visit our website, give us a call, we’ll help you out. We’ll show you your new path forward. Thanks again and thank you, you two, for coming. Really appreciate it.
Dave Larson
Thank you.
Dee Valentino
Thank you for having us.
