Prenup Podcast Episode Transcript
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:13:20
I’m Attorney Zach Townsend. You’re getting married, and you have just one quick question about prenups. Let’s get you some quick answers.
00:00:13:22 – 00:00:28:01
Speaker 1
Just one quick question does not contain legal advice. The resources discussed and information provided on just one quick question are not intended as and shall not be construed as or understood to be legal advice and should not be relied upon for any legal purpose.
00:00:28:03 – 00:00:58:00
Hi, I’m Attorney Zach Townsend from Pro Legal Care. I’m licensed in Illinois and Wisconsin to practice law in both states. We have offices in Freeport, Illinois and Rockford, Illinois. I’m here today to talk to you about prenuptial agreements. Here with me from my office is Beth. And she’s got one quick question. I have a few quick questions, things that folks bring us on the phones or when we are in networking groups and meetings, all kinds of things that people have questions about regarding Prenups.
00:00:58:00 – 00:01:23:13
Prenups are one of the things that people don’t have as many questions about. If I’m being honest, I feel like prenups are the type of law that we practice where nobody wants to ask us questions. What they want to do is tell us why they don’t need one. And I think that that puts a lot of people in some legal jeopardy when they don’t think through what their options are for, whether or not they need a prenup.
00:01:23:15 – 00:01:39:19
One of the quick questions is, do I need one? I don’t need one, do I? And that’s one that I feel like I get a lot if if we’re being honest. But I think you’re right that it’s not very common. It’s mainly. Oh, I don’t need one, do I? I don’t need one of those. That’s not for me.
00:01:39:20 – 00:01:58:06
That’s for someone else. If you don’t think you have a prenup, you do. You have the state laws of the state of Illinois, state of Wisconsin, or wherever it is that you get divorced. They already set forth what’s going to happen. There’s an allocation, a division, a way that, things are identified and then divided pursuant to law.
00:01:58:08 – 00:02:26:21
Not having a prenup is leaving your fate in the hands of the government of state law. So everyone pretty much does already have one. Either you decide it or it’s decided by statute. That’s how it goes. I don’t think that many people would choose to leave all of their possessions. And what happens to them, and what happens to their children, and what happens to their house that they inherited from their grandmother?
00:02:26:23 – 00:02:49:09
Up to big government, if they understood that that is what they’re doing. Yeah. I don’t think most people would want the state of Illinois making their personal decisions like this. So you might as well have some say in it. Right. Marriage is one of the only contracts that people sign and agree to, just to let the government make the decisions for them if it doesn’t work out.
00:02:49:11 – 00:03:08:19
It’s sort of you know, like there’s blinders or there’s this peculiarity of, well, you know, that’s never going to happen to me or that’s not something I would ever need or that’s not something that would ever apply in my life or, you know, it’s sometimes it feels like, you know, love is forever. And, you know, sometimes things don’t work out the way you would expect.
00:03:08:19 – 00:03:32:13
And sometimes people change and sometimes that’s okay. Do you think that people are not getting prenups because they’ve had the conversation with their future spouse? They’ve talked everything over and they have documented their wishes and all of these things, and they’ve made all of these decisions ahead of time. Or do you think that they are just not having the conversation?
00:03:32:15 – 00:04:04:01
I think that they’re just not having the conversation. And I can tell you, one of the benefits of, having a prenuptial agreement is it forces parties to have that conversation. And I think it’s human nature to a certain extent, that, we just sort of operate, that on the assumption that, other people just share our same values and share our same ideas of what it means to work for success and maybe what retirement means.
00:04:04:01 – 00:04:37:06
Or, you know, our value system, what my value system is may not be the same as the people around me. And I think that sometimes we sort of operate as if it is. It’s sort of tragic, actually. When a relationship ends up failing, not because of some kind of big incident or some act of infidelity or some kind of reason that you can point to when it just kind of feels like, well, we’re at this point and this is not what I planned and this is not what I expected.
00:04:37:06 – 00:04:57:03
And, you know, I wanted to travel, for example, when I always thought that when I retired that I was going to be able to see the world and maybe the spouse says, well, you know, I was, you know, I’m a homebody and it’s not what I expected to do. I wanted to send money back to my family or donate or something that maybe the other person doesn’t have that same value or preference.
00:04:57:05 – 00:05:29:20
I would say that a huge benefit is to be able to make that conversation happen. Have the hard conversations now. Have the hard conversations now. Should you be marrying a person that you can’t have hard conversations with? Well, it’s not a hard conversation if you don’t have it. That’s how it ends up being this way. I mean, but this is somebody who you’re sharing your mind and your body and your soul, and this is somebody that you see yourself being with and till eternity, you know, why would you not talk about these things?
00:05:29:21 – 00:05:50:05
It’s really important that what you believe is important with money, what you believe is important was finance. Just the other thing about money. And sometimes money is just kind of treated differently. And people feel weird about it and people strongly about it, or people have been raised a certain way about it. And you might not have that understanding if you don’t have this conversation.
00:05:50:07 – 00:06:18:22
Sure. Do you think there’s anybody out there who talks to more divorced people than you do? Maybe. I can’t think of anyone. I just feel like, when it comes to talking about problems or, changes in a marriage, things that lead to a marriage ending. You’re you’re probably the expert, right? I do have that luxury of being, you know, exposed to some of these tough situations.
00:06:18:22 – 00:06:42:00
And, that gives me the ability to know how it’s going to unfold. Or sometimes I’m looking at something and I’m like, oh, I’ve seen this movie before, and I know how it ends. You are never divorcing the same person you married. Never. You wouldn’t be divorcing that person if it was the person you married. You wouldn’t be marrying that person if it was the person you divorced.
00:06:42:02 – 00:07:23:11
Having a prenuptial agreement is having an arrangement with the person you’re married and over time, things get tough. And over time there’s growth. And sometimes that growth creates distance. Over time, there’s changes, life events that happen, experiences that maybe are not common to most people are a once in a lifetime experience that could cause somebody to kind of have a different perspective, a new lease on life, but not so much the same type of value for, say, this particular relationship, or perhaps a much greater value on something else than compared to before.
00:07:23:13 – 00:07:55:16
So it’s about planning and it’s about, well, of course you hope for the best. And, there are circumstances where, by hoping for the best, you, end up not protecting yourself because, you maybe have some kind of, blinders on about, what the worst case scenario might might be. So it doesn’t say anything about, the value of, your marriage at the time.
00:07:55:18 – 00:08:18:18
Having a prenup in place gives you the opportunity to make the plan with the person you did marry, not the person they hopefully will never become. That would be a person you would divorce. But the person who loves you and cares for you and is there for you, who’s treating you right and valuing you as a person and valuing the relationship.
00:08:18:20 – 00:08:36:05
That’s who you’re making the prenuptial agreement with. That’s why it’s important to get it done. So you’re you’re writing the contract to the person who still has a lot of respect for you and still has hope and a plan for the future with you. And that’s right. If none of those things change, great. You live happily ever after.
00:08:36:05 – 00:09:00:07
But if those things change, that’s the person that you drew up this contract with. That’s right, that’s right. So probably the biggest one quick question that we get about Prenups is don’t you only need one of those if you’re rich? Answer. No, you do not need a prenup just because you’re rich. Having a prenup is not just about wealth.
00:09:00:09 – 00:09:22:06
I would say that it’s common for rich people, to have prenups, but it’s also common for people who are not rich to have prenups. Sometimes it’s even more important for people who are not rich to have prenups, because they have more of an opportunity to be left destitute, or more of an opportunity to not be able to rebuild, or more of an opportunity to fall into a hole that they can’t climb out of.
00:09:22:06 – 00:09:50:11
So it might even be more important for you to have a prenuptial agreement when you are wealthy. It’s also true that you might not be wealthy today, but you might be wealthy down the road, so by then it might be too late. What if you start a business? What if your career advances? If you aren’t working outside the home and you’re a stay at home parent, you might need some protection because that’s quite a commitment that you’re making.
00:09:50:12 – 00:10:17:02
And there again, would you like to have the state statutes make this decision for you, or is this something that you’d like to be able to have some say and have some input in in advance before things go south? I think that’s the best opportunity to ask when you’re certainly, of the most clear mind and most cooperative and to have an opportunity to look at things realistically.
00:10:17:04 – 00:10:37:00
I think one of the most jarring stories that I’ve ever heard about, a divorce without a prenup was a woman whose husband had a work related injury that resulted in him quitting his job. He was not disabled to the point where he couldn’t return to work. He couldn’t, you know, he didn’t have doctors that were saying, hey, you can’t ever work again.
00:10:37:02 – 00:11:00:22
So he was denied disability income, but he just did not ever go back to work, not at any job. And that was not a decision that they made together. It was just a decision he made that he was not going back to work. And that caused a lot of financial problems in their marriage. And the marriage ended. And after a really, really expensive court battle, she ended up paying him, spousal support, alimony in addition to child support.
00:11:01:01 – 00:11:25:20
And he never did go back to work. And now she’s supporting two households separately instead of the one household together, which is not anything she ever agreed to. It was not a cooperative decision they made together. And I think about that a lot. They weren’t rich people. They didn’t enter into the marriage with a lot of assets or a lot of debts, and she’s just crushed financially basically for the rest of her life because of this decision that she had no say saying.
00:11:25:22 – 00:11:47:23
And that’s something I think a lot about when I think about just regular people who aren’t rich, who don’t think that they need a prenup, it’s something that would have prevented that from happening to her. Yes, it is, and it would have. And this, relates to that point I was making earlier about how some life events happen and things that maybe don’t occur to most people.
00:11:47:23 – 00:12:17:00
Sometimes it’s a death of a loved one, or sometimes it’s an injury. Like you said, that could change a person. And, you know, we don’t need to point fingers or cast blame because all of our experiences as people, they shape who we are and we can’t expect to stay the same. We’re going to change over time. And sometimes situation like that, that’s not really something that sounds like it was used in a positive way.
00:12:17:00 – 00:12:57:23
That’s part of what this preplanning is about, is that you don’t know if something that maybe is powerful would be used against you, weaponized. Right? You would think that would never happen. But you also wouldn’t think that some of the situations that you’ve previously encountered would have ever happened or. Yeah, well, it’s about the unpredictable, you know, if you could sit down and have a conversation with your, partner about everything that could possibly happen during the course of a 40 or 50 or 70 year marriage and, and feel like you could trust that you’re never going to change your minds about any of those things.
00:12:58:00 – 00:13:29:12
You definitely would feel more confident entering into marriage without a prenup, but you can’t possibly know what is going to happen ten, 15, 20 years from now. And you can’t possibly prepare for those things. So you need to have a plan for what happens if the end of your marriage is part of the unpredictable thing that happens to you, and you know, not to say that it’s okay to, you know, just change your mind about your marriage.
00:13:29:12 – 00:13:56:07
But people change their mind, and we’re not expected to have the same feelings for everything in the same way our entire lives. And that’s okay. It’s okay for us to change our mind. So maybe what was important with your finances when you were younger is not the same as what was important with your finances. When you got older or other issues of, you know, what your plan might be or how you want to live your life.
00:13:56:07 – 00:14:20:09
So it doesn’t have to be something that purports to create some kind of like, doubt or a crack in the foundation or anything like that. It’s just smart adult planning. And if this were not unpredictable, like you said, we really wouldn’t need this because if we knew it was going to happen, we would be able to plan for it accordingly.
00:14:20:11 – 00:14:42:23
This example that you had provided about the woman who had her spouse who stopped working, you know, maybe he planned that and it was all a setup. But usually when something like that happens, it’s somebody who starts to lose interest and lose concern and they don’t really have, regard for life the way they used to.
00:14:43:00 – 00:15:19:06
Maybe they’re suffering from depression. Maybe they have some kind of issue that has occurred, or maybe they are just vindictive and exploitative and different relationships, different life events, different incidences, different paths in life kind of can get you get people to evolve in a way that you just really wouldn’t expect. So, you know, one of the, great examples of the unpredictable is if one person decides that they or feels as if they can’t do this anymore and they don’t want to continue with the marriage, maybe everything would have been fine.
00:15:19:08 – 00:15:42:01
Fine, if they would have continued with the marriage. But now that this person decided they want to end the marriage, maybe this person who used to be very nice, caring to the people he or she cared about are now out for vengeance, and they’re now out for retribution or going to make you pay because you ruined their life by divorcing them.
00:15:42:03 – 00:16:05:07
I can’t count the number of times that someone trying to book a consultation with you has said something along the lines of, I don’t even recognize this person anymore. I don’t even know who this is. You’re a completely different person. Yeah, that never ceases to amaze me, because you could be married to somebody for so long. And as an attorney, when we’re in court, we’re trying to sort of anticipate what the court might do.
00:16:05:07 – 00:16:28:17
What we prepare for is litigation, because that’s the way that is the only sure way to resolve the case through litigation. So we sort of situate ourselves in, like with forward thinking view of what the judge might do. So it’s not it’s not even uncommon when I say, okay, well, what do you think that your spouse might do in this situation?
00:16:28:17 – 00:16:53:00
And they just say, oh, no, I don’t know this person anymore. I really can’t say. And it might be what feels like an easy question about your spouse and they just are at a loss because you don’t divorce the person you married. So when you use the word litigation, it sounds like a very expensive word, a very expensive process.
00:16:53:02 – 00:17:11:15
And I think that when we talk to people about prenups, even those who are interested in them often have a specific asset like, let’s say, a house, a specific piece of property. And they say, well, I don’t need a prenup because only my name is on the house. And I bought the house before marriage. So that’s protected in any way.
00:17:11:17 – 00:17:40:07
Well, how true is that? First of all, not true. There are some major tenants that suggest that you would be more protected if you had something like, you know, a piece of real estate prior to the marriage, but it’s certainly not the end of the story. Source of the payment of the, mortgage or the, payment of the, cost of the real estate is a pretty important one.
00:17:40:09 – 00:18:14:04
A lot of times people are looking to, get some piece of a down payment, or some portion, back. It’s something that you would think it might be simple, but it ends up being extremely complicated. And of course, not to throw shade, but lawyers can over complicate anything. So what ends up happening is there are these delays because the system is very slow, and there’s this fight that never maybe should have happened to begin with.
00:18:14:06 – 00:18:39:14
And the fights are not cheap and the fight is not cheap. The fight is extremely expensive, litigation is very costly. And what happens oftentimes is there is a there is a cost to the fight that ends up making it more trouble than it’s worth. There’s something called a nuisance value, which is a lawyer phrase to describe. How much is this fight actually going to cost?
00:18:39:14 – 00:19:09:13
Sure. That we can fight for your house, but if there’s $50,000 in equity in the house, and you’re going to spend $50,000 on legal fees to fight this fight about the real estate, then well, it’s not really economical. So that’s a pretty important point. Just because you might have the law on your side doesn’t mean that at the end of the day, you’re going to have the right outcome because of the nature of our legal system and the way that litigation works.
00:19:09:13 – 00:19:36:06
And and even if you have the right outcome and you and you do prevail and you win, did you really win if it took you years and tens of thousands of dollars? Exactly. If, for example, take that hypothetical with if there’s $50,000 in equity in the House, that is a pre-marital house. Well, kind of the starting point, if it were marital, would be 25 to 1 spouse and 25 to the other spouse.
00:19:36:08 – 00:20:01:01
But if you spent $50,000 fighting over the house and it’s still marital, you get 25% of the $25,000 loss. Or if it turns out to that, you do prevail. You just spent a lot of time and a lot of stress and a lot of energy without having anything in return. So the cost benefit of analysis is critical, and it’s part of how the wrong outcomes sometimes end up.
00:20:01:03 – 00:20:26:02
It’s, it’s so I mean, I had a guy just last week who, I raised a similar question and he said, you make one mortgage payment out of a joint account, and, you know, it takes you 11 months to, resolve this because it’s some huge friggin deal. And it’s, not simple and it’s not, situation that it’s almost like this, the law.
00:20:26:03 – 00:20:45:09
You’ve got this rule and you got an exception to the rule, and then you got an exception to the exception, the rule. Then you have an exception, the exception, the exception, the rule. And it just keeps going. So the more protection that you have, the better. And you know, yes, it’s good that it’s a premarital house. And maybe don’t put that home into, your spouse’s name.
00:20:45:09 – 00:21:25:08
If that’s not something that you want to do. Refinancing could do that. By the way, refinancing has this effect oftentimes of turning a pre-marital home into a marital home. So you could be protected in a prenuptial agreement with that. But it ends up being a messy situation that could have been prevented long ago. So I would say, yes, if you have a premarital home, that would be better and safer than if there was a home that was acquired during the marriage, or that you added your spouse’s name to, you would be more protected that way, but you would be most protected to have a prenuptial agreement and there’s no reason you can’t do both.
00:21:25:11 – 00:21:46:18
You could have belt and suspenders, most security, the most layered, the most highest number of levels of security, layers of security. You can be provided that we can give you the better because you never know when they’re going to be able to pierce through that or there’s going to be some issue. It’s going to be some problem or some technicality or some loophole.
00:21:46:19 – 00:22:03:19
So there’s no reason to, just have one level of protection when you can have multiple levels of protection. And I wouldn’t even call, a house that you bought before the marriage, level of protection. Because if you put an addition on to that house, that could be a that could that could turn it into a new house.
00:22:03:19 – 00:22:24:18
If it doesn’t have the same identity anymore, then it could become a marital house because it’s not the same house anymore. How often do you go an entire marriage without refinancing or doing, home equity line of credit in both people’s names or doing a, like you said, an addition or upgrading, selling that house and buying a new one.
00:22:24:20 – 00:22:49:03
Yeah, yeah, those are all excellent points. And the source of the money for those is important. And the, name of the account from where the mortgage payments are made is important. There are these details that end up being, a lot more significant, a lot more controlling, a lot more definitive, even if it’s sort of, you know, just tips the scales.
00:22:49:05 – 00:23:13:09
There are opportunities where you just become unprotected, and there’s even possibility where your spouse might have a claim to reimbursement if there was non marital debt that was paid with marital money, and that could be the way a payment of a mortgage is characterized. So you may end up having to deal with some kind of okay, the house is premarital.
00:23:13:09 – 00:23:33:23
Yeah. The house is awarded to me. Yeah. But over the past 10 or 20 years, x number of tens of thousands or more dollars were paid towards this house. So. Well, that was premarital debt. So is that something that the spouse who doesn’t have a claim to the home maybe would have a claim to some of that premarital debt or the reimbursement thereof is what I’m referring to.
00:23:33:23 – 00:24:01:01
So there are lots of different ways that it could be jeopardized, even if the spouse, his name is not added to the deed, if the spouse, his name is simply added to the mortgage, or as you said, even a home equity line of credit. Now the home is being used for marital purposes. And so it sort of morphs over time and we want to keep that as segregated as possible, because it’s not the assurance that you think it is.
00:24:01:03 – 00:24:27:20
Sure, sure. Let’s talk about things that aren’t property okay. We plan to have kids, and my fiance wants me to agree in a prenup to never put him on child support. If we split up, that’s not allowed. That’s against social policy. The state prohibits. Dad discourages that and would not recognize that to be valid because you can’t set child support in the prenup.
00:24:27:20 – 00:24:49:00
Generally, prenuptial agreements are not for child or custody related issues. Sometimes you can have some kind of maybe a statement of intent that’s a little bit fuzzy or soft, like rhetorical language about how, you know, we both are equally parents and both want to be part of the child’s life. But none of that’s really binding. None of that really is enforceable.
00:24:49:00 – 00:25:09:04
Even if you have a bunch of detail about how great the person is, that’s the person you marry. We might be now talking about the person you divorced, so the court is not going to allow, a agreement that casts the child aside, which is what you would be doing if there would be an agreement that, you know, you’re not going to put him on child support.
00:25:09:09 – 00:25:36:18
That would mean that, financial relationship that the child is entitled to by law, constitutionally, even that’s not provided. So therefore, well, it would be unenforceable. And what happens when a prenuptial agreement is unenforceable? Good question. It ends up being that you might have the whole thing, whole thing thrown out. So you can have just one part of it is bad.
00:25:36:19 – 00:26:09:23
Correct. We want to of course, normally have. Maybe we wouldn’t know this, but lawyers have what’s called non severability clauses, which means that we can specify into the prenuptial agreement that if there is any terms that are later deemed to be invalid for any reason because they’re unconscionable or against the policy of the state or something of that nature, only that provision would be tossed out, not the whole thing, but sometimes the whole thing could get tossed out, because in that event it would be a non severable provision.
00:26:10:00 – 00:26:35:23
So it’s not something that is necessarily foreseeable when the prenuptial agreement is made. And one of the other components of that is, well, you’re always looking backwards if there’s a prenuptial agreement issue, because by that time it’s already gone south. Right. So if you’re always looking backwards when there’s an issue with the prenuptial agreement, that’s going to be something that.
00:26:35:23 – 00:26:57:19
Well, what’s that word? Revisionist history, where, somebody will say, well, that’s not how it happened. And I didn’t know that was not my lawyer. And I thought that I thought that lawyer represented both of us. Or, you didn’t tell me that’s what I was signing. And suddenly it’s this issue that never was an issue before.
00:26:57:19 – 00:27:26:20
So that’s part of the same situation with. Oh, I think that this provision might be, you know, something that I’d like to see in my future, but that doesn’t mean that the law is going to support it. Okay. You kind of touched on some of the process stuff, and I definitely want to talk about that. We get a lot of questions when we’re booking consultations for you for prenups that are related to the process itself and rules that we have here at Pro Legal Care that are your rules.
00:27:26:23 – 00:27:44:12
So one of them is that we will not consult with anyone who is getting married less than 90 days from now, from the time that they’re calling us to schedule their consultation. That’s correct. Why? Why 90 days? Is that a law? No, it’s not the law. It’s just common sense. You wouldn’t want to have a, pre-marital agreement.
00:27:44:16 – 00:28:09:08
It was done right before the marriage because remember what I said about the prenuptial agreement? Problem is always backward looking. So if you’re always looking back at this issue, well, it is something where it is often used against someone if there is not a lot of time because it’s something that, people are pressured by or. Well, sometimes that is an excuse, but sometimes that’s the truth.
00:28:09:09 – 00:28:31:10
If somebody is pressured into, signing an agreement that could make it and usually does make it, less secure. So having. So if I’m getting out of the car, if I’m getting out of the limo in the big poofy dress, and you stick the contract in front of me and say, sign this or I’m not marrying you, that makes the document weaker.
00:28:31:12 – 00:28:52:18
Yes it does. It definitely makes the document weaker. And the closer to the date of marriage, generally the weaker the document. Because if this is sprung on somebody and they have this vision of this day that they have in mind, and they’ve already booked the venue and they’ve already got their family on their way, and they’ve got their flights of, grandma and grandpa booked and everything else.
00:28:52:20 – 00:29:13:03
How is it going to be that they say, no, I’m not going to sign off on that prenuptial agreement when there’s just an enormous amount of pressure. Now, let me be clear. That by itself doesn’t make it invalid. But combined with some other problems, I’m sure other concerns or some other maybe technical issues, it could be thrown out.
00:29:13:03 – 00:29:37:17
So our office requires a 90 day minimum. Because we are thorough, we’re comprehensive. We want to do it the right way. So that is hand in hand with the problem that you just identified about having the appearance of pressure or having the pressure itself. The nobody should be pressured. Nobody should be pressured in a pre-marital agreement situation.
00:29:37:19 – 00:29:56:19
Again, the closer to the date of the marriage, the less secure the general rule, the prenuptial agreement would be. Also more likely it would be to have some kind of problem, and the more likely that, sure, there could be some kind of template that some lawyer somewhere just print out and has you signed the day before. You could certainly find someone to do that.
00:29:56:19 – 00:30:20:19
But but is that going to be you? It’s not going to be me. Retailer our prenuptial agreements to the specific situation, but to the specific need and most importantly, to the goals of the client. So you had men. So let’s talk about who the client is, because that’s the other question that we get with pretty much every prenup phone call is, well, my fiance and I are going to come in and meet with Attorney Townsend.
00:30:20:19 – 00:30:49:06
My fiance and I are going to be on the phone, and we’re going to have a consultation with Attorney Townsend. We both have to be there. Why? Why won’t you let us both be there? Can you talk to us about that? Yes. So we don’t represent, two parties in the same case. We only represent, one party in the case because there ends up commonly a risk of pointing a finger at each other, or them being some kind of portrayal of confusion.
00:30:49:08 – 00:31:20:02
Or maybe there is confusion about who the lawyer represents or what the who’s interest the lawyer is looking out for. So we always encourage and in certain circumstances require the other party to have their own counsel. But we certainly encourage the other party to have their own counsel. And that’s part of the process. And also part of the process is to provide both sides a copy of the premarital agreement, not the same day, but at least some time beforehand.
00:31:20:02 – 00:31:54:05
So they could have time to, sleep on it. And we have a record, therefore, that they received it before the day of. And then there isn’t an issue nearly as often of, you know, I was pressured into doing it or I was coerced. I didn’t know what it said. If you received it in an email, days or weeks prior, then, it’s a lot more difficult to be able to say that you’re in situations where it’s nearly impossible to say that if you have your own attorney who went over it with you, and that’s for everyone.
00:31:54:06 – 00:32:18:12
That’s right. And that’s why in certain circumstances, we would require the other side to have their own attorney, and they would need to go out and hire somebody. Not necessarily for, you know, some conflict purpose, some fight, but to make sure that you have your interests looked out for the nobody wants a one sided situation where there’s only one person that has their interests looked out for.
00:32:18:12 – 00:32:39:18
Most people should have their interests looked out for. Which is why when we have, circumstances where we interact with people who are representing themselves or looking for an attorney in a situation like this, we let them know clear as day. We do not represent them. Pretty much every time we ever talked to them, we put it in writing.
00:32:39:20 – 00:33:03:10
We put it in writing repeatedly. We put it in writing. When they receive a copy of the prenuptial agreement at the end of everything, because everybody gets copies, of course, a situation where, somebody has a prenuptial agreement that they sign that they didn’t receive a copy of, that makes it less secure. Imagine testimony from somebody about a prenuptial agreement that they say that they signed but never received a copy.
00:33:03:12 – 00:33:27:03
That’s a little bit bizarre. Why would they not receive a copy? Maybe something untoward is going on. The judge might think, I don’t know, I don’t know. We also have as part of the signing process, we record it. If there is any doubt or if there is a situation where the other side does not have counsel, either one, we’re going to record it.
00:33:27:05 – 00:33:46:15
And of course, everyone knows and it’s, fully disclosed ahead of time. They agree to it and they get a copy of the recording, too. And that way everybody knows that they. Well, they can go back to that time of that signing and everyone could see that. Well, here are the types of questions that we ask. You know that I don’t represent you.
00:33:46:17 – 00:34:03:19
You know that you have the right to hire your own counsel. You’ve had the opportunity to do that. You know that I’ve encouraged you to do that. That’s my recommendation. You’ve declined my recommendation because you don’t want to hire your own lawyer. Do you need more time for that? Are you sure about that? Do you need to sleep on that or are you confident?
00:34:03:19 – 00:34:28:00
Okay. You’re confident you want to proceed today? Great. You understand that I haven’t given you any legal advice on this. You understand that I represent the interests of your clients, not you. And I understand that I’m not here to help you. And everybody is asked to be clear. You didn’t. You promised anything. You weren’t threatened as part of this.
00:34:28:00 – 00:34:46:17
The agreement is right here within the four corners of this document. There’s no outside agreement. You’re not under the influence of drugs or alcohol right now, are you? You’re not supposed to be taking medication that you’re not taking right now. You’re a clear and sound mind. You understand this. This is freely and voluntarily agreed to. And intelligently stipulated or, you know, agreed upon by you.
00:34:46:17 – 00:35:14:12
Is that all correct? You know, so we go through those types of questions to make sure. And again, that’s that’s a good practice for those. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you can say yeah definitely. So it’s, so it’s an incredibly thorough process because the end goal is a document that is going to stand the test of time. If it is tested because you don’t know you have a weak prenup until it’s already too late to do anything about it, is what I’m understanding.
00:35:14:14 – 00:35:37:04
That’s absolutely correct. Yeah. And like I said, what lawyers do is in anticipation of litigation and litigation is that word that means money. Very, very expensive process. Litigation is court fight. That’s all it means is just a court fight. And what happens is all of these steps to be comprehensive and to be clear and to make sure that everyone is on the same page, there’s no doubt.
00:35:37:06 – 00:36:03:02
And everyone’s had the opportunity to look at it. No one needs more time. Everyone’s had the opportunity for a lawyer and hopefully does have a lawyer. And everyone gets a copy. All that’s going to make it more secure. And to have that, documented clear as day, along with our comprehensive nature of the agreement, comprehensive nature process, having a thorough is what makes your prenuptial agreement most secure.
00:36:03:04 – 00:36:16:18
All right. If you want to talk to Attorney Townsend about your new path forward, you can schedule a consultation with him by calling or texting us at (815) 200-8802, or by visiting Pro Legal Care dot com.
